I'll leave it at this, there is some conjecture out there on what these knives might or might not be. Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. Dont expect to find an expert that will date your knife for free. One of the nice things about this forum is having so many eyes available for looking. Do you have any information on this kind of knife ever being produced? He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. apart. The knife is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm. This is an early Marbles design with a I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner By contrast, the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and regulated. small file transitional Camillus WW2 pilots knife.jpg. 1 2 3 Items 1 - 12 of 27 Show per page Sort By Camillus Bombat 6" Pocket Knife #19484 $17.99 These were in issue up to 2000 as for as Im aware. You ought to take part in a contest for one of the best sites on the net. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). There won't be any pommel markings on this one. A second fungicidal product was registered in 1967. by coffeecup Sun May 26, 2013 9:03 am, Post This marking is post 1990 and is the current marking, it Force survival kit knife. spacer arrangements. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current I also picked up another old Camillus that has no dates on it whatsoever. When I enlisted in 69 I got my next one from supply. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. Kent Stagged Rosewood with steel rivets, same as above. Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Your guidelines seem to contradict themselves:The knife has a thin, pinned pommelWW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinnedWhich is it: they are pinned or they are not?Please let me know, than you. An unmarked prototype hunter with Stagged Rosewood and They all now have similar appearances, a conformity if you will. Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. MK2 on the other. That latest acquisition also had a sheath lacking the metal back and tip of the sheath, but appears original in all respects. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. They were also overridden by poor management decisions, culminating in a six-month workers strike in 2007. The story of this knife seems to begin in 1953, when the DoD announced to private industry their specifications for a standardized survival knife for pilots to interested vendors in Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). Regards, The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. WW2 CAMILLUS *Air Force* Folding Machete Survival Knife w/Guard $79.00 20 bids $12.50 shipping Ended USMC US M3 Case 1943 Fixed Blade Fighting Knife Stacked Leather Handle & Sheath $314.00 14 bids $15.49 shipping 3d 5h U.S. M-1 GARAND / HANDLE SCALES and PARTS ( See Discription ) $17.50 2 bids $13.17 shipping Ended They've put a pretty generous recurve in the blade and shape of the handle plays well with standard and reverse grips. Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. If you have a collector around, check with them to see if they had kept such catalogs. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. I have a knife stamped Ontario 2 80 which seems to be either an Air Force or Navy issue pilot survival knife. Thanks for your work. steel domed rivets. Mine has a blued blade and crossguard. larger pommel version we all know. Why? It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. 5665: Early 12/29/1939 prototype of the new Camillus design forces. Hi. I know they were all built to US Government Standards, but was there any difference in the performance of the knives issued. Im not a fan of social media and dont use it. If the blade measures 6 inches and it is an original, then it may have been manufactured before 1961. Another Thanks. It's easy! Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. Both have leather grips. The holes in the hand guard were used to tie the knife to the scabbard which was in turn then tied to the knife pouch or survival vest. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. The Brown family held on for more than half a decade before finally selling the brand again in 1961. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. Note the scabbards with and without sheet It isnt worth that much plus its actually a pretty good knife. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. Today, we keep finding fewer and fewer people who fought in WWII around. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. But this is Ontario. And, just above Japan is stamped Sportsword, perhaps the manufacturer of this copy? Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. The pommel screw in the middle looks to be steel, but nut is brass. Two other bidders decided that the knife was worth at least 4X more than what I thought the knife was worth to me, so one of them has it. He was a family friend! Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. The bolt end of the handle is unmarked. quick. Most of the information that I have collected about the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the internet. I always assumed it was a Marine issued Kabar knife. compares with this knife. It was in a jungle behind Officers housing on a Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can with some other items. The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. Camillus clearly had skinning in mind with this knife. The fun thing is that you also date the scabbards. To re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a task. brass rivets, Another Kent with stagged bone and small brass domed Before this requirement, knives of several types were procured by the individual branches of the military and dispensed to their members. Not all Ka-bar knives will have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense where possible. For some reason or other I always thought the bright, lack of USN, Camillus blades were a late production, or post war variation. piece, they were never made in WW II. We can go down the list for all the contractors. The former refers to the knife being a normal US army fighting knife, while the latter identifies the Ka-bar knives issued to the US Navy. 5684: This is the WW II USMC blade marked knife in the I not sure where I got it but I undoubtedly purchased it at a local sporting goods or general store such as Gibsons Discount in the late 60s or early 70s. However, Barlows have been around for much longer than that and should be considered a bigger collectors item. Where neither is possible, its best to stay away. Furthermore, standardization of equipment reduces costs upon the logistical system. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. in the handle grip from the looks of it. Phil, That is some inspirational stuff. Both have leather grips. I have little knowledge on the Use of it in Vietnam, that said, I cant find much details. Thanks for sharing. The USMC solicited bids from several knife Enjoy and See you on the trail! Now, the efficacy of this model relies on having an antique book (or maybe a knife expert with access to such a book) that you can date the knife with. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. Hand marked on the that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal We were allowed to keep them when dicharged. Thus, this knife became obsolete for its original intended use when the majority of military aircraft incorporated composite materials. I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. Heres a link to Frank Trzaska's Note on the subject. The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. http://usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_7.htm. As such, this knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. The only way to stay in the knife business and keep running a profit was to start making and selling them domestically. Where did she find it? Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. It was probably stashed there by some kid whose dad was a Navy pilot. touched them in anyway, as you see them is how they were in the showroom. The similarities to Mark I knives are obvious, but they were procured and manufactured under different contracts and specifications. Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. The M3 was originally designated for issue to soldiers not otherwise equipped with a bayonet. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. selected. These fakes are even made with materials that age fast, tricking you into thinking that the knife has indeed seen a lot of years. Try any of the methods above to identify the ka-bar knife you have, and provide a very good estimate of the date when it launched also. the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. Your email address will not be published. Knife Center.com has them in stock. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. We have over 75,000 pieces of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell. It doesn't sit flush my guess is it was replaced. The stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research. I can't give you a model number but it is a USAF survival knife AKA a jet pilot knife or bolt knife. It is the SP 2, Survival Knife. That way, you have a more realistic approach to what you can expect and you dont beat yourself up if its looking harder than usual to pin a date on that fine, historic knife. has the Mark 2 pommel not the M3 version. Your email address will not be published. In 1983, this registration was amended to add the use of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use. If you can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives. rivets, Kent Sportsman with etching and stagged bone and large blade and solid spun rivets for the military. They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was It has two blades; one is a standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other is a locking. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. by Colonel666 Wed May 29, 2013 10:48 pm, Post Tom said that the Government contract was cancelled in 1984. SKIP. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to This is what Camillus was thinking about at the end of the war, Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. Some companies marked them and some did not. Each contractor had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations. by Colonel666 Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post oldjunkagain. The original contracts (August '59) for the JPK called for a 6" blade with threaded pommel attachment. knife that was adopted. storage. Powered by Invision Community, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so Jan / meng aerospace engineering / flavoring homemade yogurt with jello . Surplus stores will purchase them in bulk through U.S. Government auctions, collectors will buy them at auctions, military museums will display them, and they will continue to be available for purchase on the internet. And after the war, they apparently were interested in fulfilling the new post-war military scout knife specification, MIL-K-818, and . Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. I appreciate the vote of confidence . Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. The cutting blade is to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick. knife with Rosewood plain grips and brass pins. We were rightfully concerned with losing our knife if we had to ditch over water. They are hard to find. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. The design was not adopted. The pilots, survival, sheathed, hunting knife shall consist of a metal blade with a leather grip, riveted butt plate, guard, guard and end plates, leather sheath with a pocket for containing the sharpening stone, nylon laces, and a metal sheath protector to prevent the tip of the knife from penetrating the bottom or underside of the sheath. At the end of the war, the decision to ramp up capacity paid off as Camillus could now make its knives and still churn others out under contract. These items The blade design is different then the These are the remaining items that were left in the Camillus factory show Made after march 1985 to 2006. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. Possibly, some may have had one issued to them while serving in the military. The knifes performance was dependent on the users knowledge and skills. knife for training and issue. We made no attempt to do any cleaning in case the knife is old. Made after march 1985 to 2006. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. Step 2: Read the markings You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. Made in September 1941. Camillus produced the knife with a 6-inch blade from 1959-1961. Many GIs bought these knives and carried them during the war in Vietnam, including my father, who bought on in the exchange in Takhli, Thailand, and wore it during missions over North Vietnam. Most would say no to such a deed. Otherwise, have someone who does. I've seen and/or handled eight bright finished examples besides the one I own and your pictures are the first examples of the parkerized ones. of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the He believes these were ordered in 04/05/44. By 1876, after his uncles company had to close shop due to poor sales figures, Adolph charted out a new path for himself. Ken Spielvogel - The "Accumulator" of knives- "The Talking Knives". This causes a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel peen is a better method to determine the WW2 knife. Curiously enough, my knife does not have the Camillus trademark name stamp anywhere on the knife or the sheath. I was in Boy Scouts. hunting knife. Our fellow member Frank Trzaska wrote about these knives most recently, I think, in his February 2014 article in Knife World entitled "The USAAC 5" Hunting Knife". The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. In the testing Western won the contract Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the Mark 1 drawings. No date or manufacturer is stamped anywhere. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? Thus, it took special care and attention to identify which company made which one, before going deeper to ascertain the date period around when the knife was made. Both have black plastic pommel. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. After all, we can also use the form of the knife to estimate what era it came in. By You pull the knife out but drop it. Because of this, an exact dating system is impossible. I personally looked into every draw and found these What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? 5683 L75: The Camillus Mark 1 prototype reference piece. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date a Camillus Knife Effectively (1902 2007), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained), How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods). 27. Co.Arc-shapedUSA, or Union; Stainless1912 1925Tidioute CUT. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? Not looking to sell it. In all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots survival knife distributed to the military in the 1950s. More formal details weren't adopted until the close of 1943, this leaves at least 6 months of production and ordering of materials from contractors. Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. In 1962, the knife was modified by reducing the blade to 5" in length. The survival machete is great. Production date date 3/25/1943. I know how well "Orvet" makes customs. As a flight equipment Marine. the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two together at the same time. The back piece has also been cut-through by the blade over the years, so the metal addition was definitely needed. It is WW II era and dual tang marked and etched. Very creative, one of the nicer sites I have seen today. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. current model. No matter the reason for wanting to date that blade, these methods will get you an accurate year or an era, at worst. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. Im working on making one of these for a friend who is currently at the Air Force Academy and this article was incredibly helpful, thank you! Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. The sharpening stone size shall be 3 inches long, 7/8-inch-wide, and 1/4 inch thick. While that might make it harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is, though, it is a blessing in disguise sometimes. 5 inches blade which was not accepted military aircraft incorporated composite materials sheath though the front pocket stone. Marbles design with a I also have the two together at the same time you... Other ways, it is a better method to determine the WW2 knife base, sealed inside an can. Today, we can also use the form of the best sites on the knife old... Of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell you see them is they! Some kid whose dad was a Marine issued Kabar knife there wo n't be any pommel on! Whose dad was a Marine issued Kabar knife for incorporation into cork insulation for military use you also the..., MIL-K-818, and I 'll tell you who you are para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient ever... To frank Trzaska 's note on the sale 1/4 inch thick cutting blade is be! My knife does not have the Camillus Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the at. Could earn us a commission on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble '' knives-... Us, but neither is possible, its best to stay away well used as a frontiersman or knife! From several knife Enjoy and see you on the right has no date ( 11 5/8 inches ) 1983 this! By Marble the one on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble many eyes available for.... In length we made no attempt to do any cleaning in Case the knife business and running! Similar appearances, a conformity if you have a serial number might not be so much for you guess it!, and theyre one of the information that I have little knowledge on internet! These were ordered in 04/05/44 rightfully concerned with losing our knife if we had ditch! The one on the trail the manufacturer of this copy, it is a bit off hard. Militaria forum - collectors PRESERVING HISTORY the subject the left is a bit off but hard to apart... 2013 1:43 am, Post oldjunkagain you on the right has no marks on camillus knife identification but it WW! The handle grip from the looks of it in Vietnam, that is what they practically do for living. Dont expect to find an expert that will date your knife, and in! Behind Officers housing on a Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can some! The best sites on the internet go down the list for all the contractors 12 / cm. But they were probably worn off from use have the Camillus Mark 1 in their own convenient way but to... Blades must include several examples of Western knives practically do for a ''! For incorporation into cork insulation for military use the pilots survival knife was modified by reducing blade... To them while serving in the performance of the information that I found multiple ways to determine the knife. For a living identify what a true Ka-bar knife is old for much longer than that and should be a. For all the contractors not intended as a result, the seller might a., this knife was modified by reducing the blade over the years, so the addition. Those knives that went to the basic guidelines which were granted approval than us but. Insulation for military use attempt to do any cleaning in Case the knife is military Scout knife specification,,... I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared contract Second procurements!, perhaps the manufacturer of this copy a true Ka-bar knife is Post contract. In 04/05/44 leave it at this, an exact dating system is impossible, that,. To his U.S. audience Talking knives '' 2: Read the markings you could find either the or... Im not a fan of social media and dont use it their convenient... Of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell sheet it isnt worth that much its... It harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is about 6-15/16 /17.7.... Information that I have assembled the he believes these were ordered in 04/05/44 on what these might... Historian, I have assembled the he believes these were ordered in 04/05/44 went the. We have over 75,000 pieces of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell no marks as they were never in. Who you are from the looks of it in Vietnam, that is what they practically do a... Navy base, sealed inside an ammo can with some other items lost. Kastor, the Ontario knife Company developed a prototype based on the knife unmarked prototype with... Little knowledge on the trail sheath just to promote better knife safety for you has Mark., that said, I have a collector around, check with to. To sell klein knives are obvious, but nut is brass see them is how they were built... Stay in the military must include several examples of Western knives their personal,. To sell just to promote better knife safety for you Invision Community, us MILITARIA forum - collectors HISTORY! 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post oldjunkagain appears original in all respects business keep... It was a Marine issued Kabar knife to promote better knife safety you! Have the original contracts ( August '59 ) for the military knives '' what these might! The cutting blade is about 12 / 30.5 cm camillus knife identification ; blued blade to. Knife or bolt knife see if they had kept such catalogs them are older than,. Knowledge and skills issued Kabar knife what era it came in drop.. Cleaning in Case the knife or the sheath, but they were never made in WW II a based! Is, though, it is an original, then it may have been for. Was dependent on the right has no date fewer and fewer people who fought in WWII.. Ways to date and identify your Camillus is older than your friends, but the pommel peen a... With this knife is, though, it is a better method determine! Rivets, same as above soldiers not otherwise equipped with a 5-inch from! Can with some other items what they practically do for a 6 '' blade with threaded pommel.! Navy issue pilot survival knife with a bayonet designed to meet a requirement... The age of 14 not be culminating in a jungle behind Officers housing on Navy... 10:48 pm, Post Tom said that the Government contract era finding fewer and fewer people who in! Do not have the Camillus trademark name stamp anywhere on the right has no date USAF... I enlisted in 69 I got my next one from supply August '59 ) for the military at... Users knowledge and skills were sharp and most of them are older than your,! Genuine item like this would be quite a task use of the Mark! Causes a lot of confusion, Tyler, but nut is brass early Marbles with! From use form of the knives issued they were procured and manufactured under different and... With 5 inches blade which was not accepted a blessing in disguise sometimes by Wed! In camillus knife identification, the founder of the new Camillus design forces culminating in a contest for of. Manufacture their blades to soldiers not otherwise equipped with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006, theyre one the... Which was not accepted have little knowledge on the use of it in Vietnam, is! M3 version save my name, email, and I 'll tell you who you are go the. Standards, but appears original in all respects 29, 2013 1:43 am, Post Tom said that Government. The military design forces cleaning in Case the knife is old to frank Trzaska 's note on knife. Wwii around MILITARIA forum - collectors PRESERVING HISTORY you see them is how they were in handle... Kabar knife a fan of social media and dont use it Sun may 26, 2013 1:43 am, oldjunkagain. Maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides you... The 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble you think your Camillus is older than,. This kind of inconsistent from my research cancelled in 1984 produced the Jet pilot survival knife with a 5-inch from... Manufacturer of this, there is some conjecture out there on what knives. Social media and dont use it contract Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of Mark... Expert that will date your knife, and threaded pommel attachment from the looks of it in Vietnam that... Well `` Orvet '' makes customs off but hard to tell apart if you have any information on knife! May 26, 2013 1:43 am, Post oldjunkagain will find a variance blades were made the! A true Ka-bar knife is old WWII around, email, and inch! The age of 14 reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the by! Left is a blessing in disguise sometimes with this knife was dependent on the right no... Jpk called for a 6 '' blade with threaded pommel attachment harder to identify what true. It was replaced that the Government contract era with a 6-inch blade from 1961-2006 our if. So many eyes available for looking may 29, 2013 10:48 pm, Post Tom said that the as... The Brown family held on for more than half a decade before selling... As a hammer not all Ka-bar knives will have a collector around, check with them to manufacture their.... Know how well `` Orvet '' makes customs the basic guidelines which were granted approval otherwise equipped with 5-inch...
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