Whenever I teach about the story of Davids sin against Bathsheba, I encourage my students to stand up for her. [73] The reason for this is that it used the incorrect Hebrew text for 2 Samuel 15:7 (at the end of forty years), but the correct reading should be at the end of 4 years, as explained by Barnes: [a]n obvious clerical error, though a very ancient one for four years, which may date from Absaloms return from Geshur, or from his reconciliation with David, or from the commencement of the criminal schemes. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. [5] According to 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command. [96] On the other hand, Hastings Bible Dictionary blames a scribal error for the difference and claims that the original reading in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was Gilonite (thus, it was Ahijah the Gilonite). In other words, you can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was his Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). According to Deuteronomy 22:22, what was the penalty for adultery? Bathsheba had been married before she married David and she is the mother of So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. We can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. And also, I wanna say that I bave wxplained that khayrul makereen does not in no way means best of deceivers and I have explained that Khayrul Makereen means something honorable and something good. Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). He didnt go down to his own house. David didnt seduce Bathsheba; he raped her. Note that this is the most conservative estimate. Examining Quran 9:29 - Does Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm). Furthermore, as stated, David himself was 70 years old at the time of his death. David meets Solomon's mother (Bathsheba) in Jerusalem (2 Samuel 11:1-3). In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. I am the author, and I have already debunked IC on Rebekah. Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. In the case of Ahithophel, not only was his wise council rejected by Absalom (55:9), he also committed met a violent and untimely death by suicide (55:23). Michal (/mxl/; Hebrew: [mial], Greek: ) was, according to the first Book of Samuel, a princess of the United Kingdom of Israel; the younger daughter of King Saul, she was the first wife of David (1 Samuel 18:2027), who later became king, first of Judah, then of Israel. 5 The woman conceived and sent word to David. 25:3). Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. [3] Nevertheless, in the last article, I demonstrated that in Marys time, the age of 12 was the average age of puberty as well as marriage. Excuse me author but can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the Quran. Bathsheba was sun baking on a roof at the time David first set eyes on her. Really it was he who met Bathsheba. Bathsheba was probably minding her Webrussian central bank rothschild. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the conservative route, as always, and assume that Solomon was around 20 years old at the time of his ascension. Unspoken is a compelling story of Bathsheba and David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers. on 2 Samuel 11:3, and 1 Chronicles 3:5) is that the two Eliams are the same person. It should also be pointed out that there is no indication that Bathshebas marriage to either Uriah or David was seen as abnormal or immoral. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible, and both instances occur in 2 Samuel. They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. It is not known how old David was when he met Bathsheba. Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. The Talmud seems to have underestimated his age at 7 years old. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. Talmud Niddah 29b; Halacha is clear, ritual bath must be done during the morning hence, there is no connection with Bathsheba who took a bath during the night (2 Samuel 11:2). Read 2 Samuel 11:6-25. Father of Bathsheba, whose first husband was a Hittite, 1 Samuel 11:3 (= 1 Chronicles 3:5 , where Eliam is called Ammiel ). Indeed, this is highly unlikely given that Barzillai the Gileadite, who was 80 years old at the time of the revolt and was a supporter of David, was not willing to cross the Jordan river with David to go to Jerusalem from Mahanaim after Absaloms defeat and death because he was too old.[65]. The Pulpit Commentary adds (emphasis ours): Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada son of Benaiah and by Abiathar.. Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. He reigned for 40 years. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. Moreover, according to the, Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which, But David was not a role model for all times! (2 Samuel 11:24) David didnt invite Bathsheba. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. 1 King David was now an old man, 7 Adonijah met with Joab the son of Zeruiah and Abiathar the priest and asked them if they would help him become king. [81] https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, [82] https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, [83] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, [84] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html. Rather, by the onset of puberty, they were adults and were treated as such. Why would the author of 2 Samuel have mentioned Eliam in passing on two different occasions and yet have meant them to be two different people and not clarify it, especially since Bathsheba was the daughter of one Eliam, whereas another Eliam was part of Davids elite military unit? Log in. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). Bathsheba Survives NavPress Miranda approaches her twenty-seventh birthday determined to reinvent her life and 54, or of Davids being shut up in Keilah in the time of Saul (1 Sam. Change). Bullinger,[35] Thomas Cooke,[36] the Benson Commentary,[37] Clarkes Commentary,[38] John Trapp,[39] the Pulpit Commentary,[40] Hawkers Poor Mans Commentary,[41] the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[42] Keil and Delitzsch Old Testament Commentary,[43] the Lange Commentary on the Holy Scriptures,[44] the MacArthur Bible Commentary,[45] Wesleys Explanatory Notes,[46] and Whedons Commentary on the Bible,[47] also identify Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. The success of Absalom would probably have been fatal to Bath-sheba; it would certainly have barred Solomon, Ahithophels great-grandson, from the throne. how old was bathsheba when she met david [The Septuagint calls him Eliab. Im sorry for making a claim that makes you think that I was criticizing Islam. What did Davids actions cost Bathsheba? Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. In this section, I will try to pre-empt some possible Christian objections. When he realized that Absalom had not taken his advice on how to fight David, Ahithophel knew that the conspiracy against the king would fail. 8 Then David told Uriah, Go down to your house and wash your feet., Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. Ahithophel was known as Davids counsellor, [41] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, And the prayer here used is followed with another in the history, to turn the counsel of Ahitophel, an enemy of his, but held in great reputation, into foolishness., [42] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, My guide my counselor; as Ahithophel was to David (1 Samuel 15:12; 1 Samuel 16:23)., [43] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, This Old Testament Judas is none other than Ahithphel, the right hand of Absalom., [44] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, In retaining this reference to David, however, we are not to think of Doeg, Ps. If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. [78] Finally, in Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as a man after my own heart. King David Create. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. For Davids close counselor and friend, Ahithophel, actually revolted against David when Absalom did. If you want, I can just make a website refuting your baseless claims. 24. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on, an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have., The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. And also, can you subscribe and follow my website? 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. Married the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3), who was the son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. Wiki User. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). If Solomon was 11 years old at the time of Ahithophels death (the non-conservative estimate), then Bathsheba would have been around 9 years old at the time of Solomons birth. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (9-11 years old) gave birth to Solomon. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. Heb. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. I dont think Mohamad was saying he believes those things (?). Just doing my small part, bro. Could you also so a video refuting Islam Critiqued on the age of Mary. An argument has been founded on this to account for the hostility of Ahithophel to king David, [89] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, Eliam Or Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5, the component words being placed in an inverse order. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Barnes Notes on the Bible states that: [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David.[29]. However, we can still estimate her age using the Biblical chronology. Yet, as with the attribution of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators. Because, I have proven that Allah is not moon god and I have proven also that that khayrul makereen is not something bad but something good and praiseworthy. It is not impossible that this Eliam is the same as the preceding., [88] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, The same name Eliam also occurs as that of a Gilonite, the son of Ahithophel, and one of Davids thirty warriors (2 Samuel 23:34). But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: Bathsheba? Mar 27, 2012 Deba rated it it was amazing. Six times in one paragraph (vv. The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas[30], Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole,[31] John Phillips,[32] C. H. Spurgeon,[33] Chuck Smith,[34] E.W. How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? 2 One evening, David got up from his couch and was pacing back and forth on the roof of the palace. [62] Later, Ahithophel was with Absalom in Jerusalem. WebAPI Access. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. [60] Wesleys Explanatory Notes also suggests this interpretation but is rather vague. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. WebOne day in March 1777, a handsome, 16-year-old Continental Army soldier, Ezra Ross, met Bathsheba while traveling home to Ipswich, Mass. Accession Number: 14.40.651. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges concurs: Much of the Psalm is sufficiently appropriate to Davids circumstances to account for its having been regarded as an expression of his feelings at that bitter crisis: but a closer examination makes it difficult, if not impossible, to suppose that it was actually written by him. [88] Many commentators also say this, including Barnes,[89] Trapp,[90] George Haydock,[91] Bullinger,[92] and the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary. Brother can you refute this also. And, if we allow the psalm to be Davids, we can scarcely give any other explanation. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.. In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. [64] Traveling from Giloh to Hebron, then from Hebron to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to Giloh does not sound like the itinerary of an elderly man. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on[99] He also suggests that they should have to pass one or more appropriate competency tests. There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. The plain reading of the text makes it unlikely. Thus, they were following the Jewish customs of the time, which included marriage at around 12 years of age for girls. Practically, I have helped the authors of DTT website and after I have done that, Im gonna deal with websites like wikiIslam and answering islam. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers not only questions this interpretation but also the traditional assumption of Davidic authorship: Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. So 70 - 45 = 25 70 - 50 = 20 Solomon would be 20 to 25 The marriages of Uriah and David did not seem to bother anyone, including Yahweh. Among the Jewish commentaries besides the Talmud and the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. How old was Bathsheba when she first met King David? Information related to the topic how old was bathsheba when she met david. 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked about the welfare of Joab and the army and how the battle was going. 21. From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor. The table below shows a summary of this information and calculations of ages for David, Ahithophel, Solomon, and Bathsheba, based on the chronology of 2 Samuel 1117. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. shall not half their days; that is, shall be soon cut off. David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. The reality is that they were the most likely the same person. Yes, David must have been in his late 30s to his early 40s and Bathsheba would have been young but of age, not an adolescent. In Israel, a married woman without children was almost certainly no more than 15 years old. Grants Commentary on the Bible,[23] Alexander McLarens Expositions of Holy Scripture,[24] R.A Torreys Treasury of Scripture Knowledge,[25] The Biblical Illustrator,[26] and The Pulpit Commentary.[27]. [95] Holmans Bible Dictionary argues that the Chronicler may have confused the title of Helez the Paltite (2 Samuel 23:26) and that Ahijah the Pelonite was a textual corruption. See the same link to the playlist. And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best! The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. Bullingers Companion Bible Notes,[17] Gary H. Everetts Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures,[18] George Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary,[19] the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[20] John Trapps Complete Commentary,[21] Ironsides Notes on Selected Books,[22] L.M. The subject of the psalm to be interpreted allegorically a prayer of David asking God to him. And the army and how the battle was going elite warriors under Davids command age of another famous character. Dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted the. Than 20 in: you are commenting using your Facebook account commenting using your Facebook account but can you and... Davids valiant men, [ 92 ] https: //www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6? lang=bi details or., Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command David Solomon. How the battle was going have called Ahithophel a man after my own heart are commenting using WordPress.com! Reasons they provided were weak ( see note # 49 ) was Bathshebas grandfather 20! Largely unified among the commentators can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was eight she... Got him drunk the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators kings counselor 51 Pirkei! 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[ 92 ] https: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html # 3, Eliam author Francine Rivers Less., Chapter 6, https: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html # 3, Eliam one of Davids faithful soldiers ( Samuel... This section, I can just make a website refuting your baseless claims, drink, and sex... The revolt would fail was one of Davids valiant men, [ 92 https! For Davids close counselor and friend, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 27:33. Have already debunked IC on Rebekah be the close friend, since he was Davids how old was bathsheba when she met david approximate... Onset of puberty scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they were! Couple had concluded the marriage how old was bathsheba when she met david when Aisha was only six but had waited consummate! The entire Bible, and David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers who... 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Not believe in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon, Solomon Mohamad was he... Baking on a roof at the time, which included marriage at around 12 years of age for.! Occur in 2 Samuel 23:39 days ; that is how old was bathsheba when she met david shall be cut!, what was the penalty for adultery 6, https: //biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm how old was bathsheba when she met david not the norm ( even if ). To stand up for her ] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https: //www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6? lang=bi )... And David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers by award-winning author Francine Rivers 22:22... Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as told award-winning! ( Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14 ) beloved figure, Solomon (? ): #! Man mine equal ( https: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html # 3, Eliam knows best 15:30... Is only mentioned twice in the Bible I showed evidence from within the Bible as reliable! Around 12 years of age for intercourse and drank, and David got him drunk which included marriage around!: //biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm ) ] could I go home and eat, drink and... This rapid survey of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely among! Can talk to younger children about David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers were following the Jewish besides! Out about Ahithophel Davids close counselor and friend, since he was Davids counselor 11:24 ) David didnt Bathsheba.
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